Mehdi Karroubi was one of few political figures who defended the rights of the Sufis and for this reason Sufis gave him their votes during the recent election. Last week, fourteen of Sufis of the Gonabadi order where sentenced flogging and imprisonment by the government court, while last year, relatives of a deceased Sufi were prevented from bury him in a private tomb and the family of the deceased man where arrested. This was followed by the gathering of Sufis in front of the city hall where they encountered violent suppression by the security forces.

Also in May 2010, a number of civil clothed agents gathered in front of the gathering place of the Sufis in the city of Karaj and shouted slogans against Sufism.

Dr. Mustafa Azmayesh is one of more famous figures and the spokesman of the Gonabadi Sufi order outside of Iran. But according to him, he is only one of the disciples of the Sufi path. Dr Azmayesh personal websites, like many other blogs and websites of the Gonabadi Sufis have been frequently filtered or hacked. For years he has lived outside of Iran and tried to bring the worlds attention on the pressure that imposed by Iranian regime on the Sufis in Iran. Dr Azmayesh is an expert on human rights and Islamic studies, and is one of the members of the “International committee for support of Sufis and Students in Iran” who attempts to defend the rights of Students and Sufis against the tyranny of the Iranian ruling system. He left Iran for France 34 years ago to finishing his degree in law. After the Islamic revolution he preferred to stay outside of Iran and to be the voice of his fellow Sufis whenever he was needed. We interviewed him in order to understand the beliefs of the Sufis and find out the reason for the prolonged confrontations between the current ruling system in Iran and the Sufis.

Since many are unaware of the ideology and faith of the Sufis, and what they have been going through during the past years, this interview can hopefully shine a spotlight on state of Sufis and the restrictions they face in Iran.

We have seen in the news that 24 Sufis of the Gonabadi order have been sentenced to imprisonment, flogging and exile. These sentences have been the followed several phases of heavy destructions of the gathering places of the Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufi order.  What restrictions have been opposed on Sufis in general? Have such restrictions led to the migration of Sufis from Iran?

In order to better understand the recent events we should take a look at the general policy of the Islamic republic against Sufis, from the very beginning of the revolution until the present day. Then we can comprehend the continued pressure and suppression that is imposed on the Sufis; which have lead to many Sufi orders migrating from Iran. But the Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufis who are Shiite Muslims and believe in the 12 Imams have remained in Iran although they have had to endure violent oppression, like the destruction of their gathering places by the use of government equipment carried out by agents of the regime paid by the government, in cities like Qom, Bourojerd, Isfahan and Charmahin. They have also forced Sufis to sign commitments not to let in other Sufis in their houses and if a house was rented for the purpose of being a gathering place for the Gonabadi order, the doors have been shut and looked forever. At the same time, many masters and elders of this order have been forced to leave their birth places and have been exiled for life or for long periods of time. Recently even the families of Sufis are denied burial of their loved ones in the cemeteries, regardless of the fact that it is in the will of the deceased and the burial place has been paid for in advance. If the funeral then takes place it is then considered a crime and punishments are imposed on the family of the deceased or anyone who objects to this type of discrimination and lack of justice. This is the situation of the Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufis in Iran.

You mentioned the gatherings of the Sufis and the fact that the regime is trying to prevent these gatherings. The Islamic republic has promoted for years that Sufis do not follow the religious practices and laws. What do you think of these allegations?

Of course, those involved in the judicial system of Iran have demolished human rights and the words of justice and truth has lost its meaning. The Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufis are Shiite Muslims and one of the most religious segments of the Iranian population and act according to the morals and duties of Islamic faith, and whoever comes in contact with Sufis will understand this within a short period of time. It is even so that the opponents of religion and Islam have always objected to the ways of the Gonabadi Sufis and told them, “You adhere too much to the religious practices.” But the allegations of the regime should not be considered as lies, we should refer to the way these people see Islam. The definition these people give to Islam is unlike any other interpretation of Islam during the 1400 years that Islam has existed and their point of view has no relation to the holy Quran. They see the supreme leader as the absolute ruler of the government. Mr. Karroubi gave an example and said: “The Islam of the current system is like an extremely small boat, and anyone who is not on this boat is considered a non-Muslim.” That is why they say that Sufis do not obey the religious principles. This is not true. Sufis spend their time during these gatherings for prayer and meditation, and everyone is welcome to come to these gatherings and see for themselves. We do not want to get into a defensive position. It is they who have not understood the teachings of Islam and promote their totalitarian ways as “Islam”. If the manner of Sufis does not correspond to their ways, it is because Sufis are real Muslims, and teach tolerance, and they do not and thus are not true Muslims.

It is said that the clergy see Sufis as a concurrent movement and worry about the influence of Sufis on society. What is the point of view of Sufis on politics and do they agree with mixing religion with politics or not?

Sufis absolutely believe in the necessity for separating religion and politics. Sufis believe that if religion and politics are mixed together, not only that the problems of the world will not be solved but also the reputation and credibility of religion will disappear. This is especially true when those who have the authority of religion and politics take advantage of their position. They put the label of Islam on their horrible acts and feel free to give out severe penalties in the name of Islam to those who object to their ways. But they are doing great harm to the reputation of Islam in the eyes of the people and history. People think that Islam really is an ideology who advocates violence and that Islam is based on terror. All of this is because of such wrong behaviors. This is the reason that Sufis like any other real Shiite Muslims believe in the separation of politics and religion, especially during the absence of the messiah. In fact any government in the name of religion and spirituality until the coming of the messiah is considered a fraud. Because Shiite Muslims believe that there were only 14 people who are without any sin throughout history and that the last one of them is the messiah who is absent, that is why Sufis do not involve themselves in political work in the name of religion.

On the other hand those who have the authorities of religion and politics in Iran are confronted by this lack of acceptance and they react to this by violence and repression. And the real reason why the government has been trying to eliminate Sufism from Iran and particularly the Gonabadi order should be investigated within this context and the unity of politics and religion preached by the regime versus the separation of these politics and religion which is thought by the Sufis.

It seems that during Ahmadinejad's government, pressures and restrictions that the government is imposing on Sufis has become more intense. Why is the government fighting with mysticism and what area of your activities do they oppose? Are you deviating from Islam according to them? What is your analysis of these pressures?

At the beginning of the presidency of Ahmadinejad and the ninth government, a center was established that mostly consisted of Friday preachers of different cities as members. The head of this centre is Sheikh Mohammad Yazdi, who is also the Vice President of the “Assembly of Experts”. In their meetings, they discuss different religious currents in Iran and whether religious minorities or different interpretations of Islam and the judicial and executive means of the government are obliged to take action according to the policies. In their last meeting, they said that the greatest duty of the government is to defend the religious borders of the Iranian citizens, and for this reason they created an excuse for removal of any type of ideology that is different to the official ideological beliefs of the current government and called this “defending the religious borders of Muslims.”

In this session, this centre formed four commissions that each one deals with the ultimate goal of: eradicating Sunni Muslims under the pretext of fighting “Wahabiat”, eliminating Sufism under the pretext that they do not have the right understanding of the “supreme spiritual leader”, removing Baha’ism with the excuse that their holy place is located in Haifa in Israel and that they are spies, and finally eliminating new emerging mysticism under the pretext of devil worship.

Defending the borders of ideological Iranian citizens creates a great deal of corruption to such extent that it uses the judicial system to revoke the license of the lawyers who defend the legal rights of the Sufis. Then the governors and the councils across the country are made to immediately provide the required equipment whenever they decide to destroy the gathering places of Sufis. Even in Parliament a new commission was created by the name of “National Security Commission”, and the vice-president of this commission is Mohammad Ismail Kowsari, who was earlier the chief of the military base of the revolutionary guard “Sarollah”, which is in conflict with Sufis because they say that Sufis have the wrong interpretation of “spiritual leader” and that this is in contrast with their own ideology.

You mention the support of the candidacy of Mr. Karroubi from the Gonabadi Sufis. Did this have any effect on the issues after the election in arresting the Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufis?

No, not at all! The arrests, detentions and repression of Sufis, and revoking the licenses of the lawyers who defended the Sufis in courts, closing down their gathering centers and the destruction of their gathering places has been going on for long time and started years ago. But clearly the main reason that the Sufis supported Mr.Karroubi was that when the government of Mr. Ahmadinejad, as the executor of the decisions taken by the of the Commission of the Council, started the destruction of cultural and meeting places of Sufis other officials were silent, Mr. Karroubi was the only one who protested and wrote a letter to the interior minister, Mostafa Pour-Mohammadi and another letter to the head of intelligence service, Mr. Mohsen Ajei, and also wrote open letters to other officials of the country condemning these violent acts. Every time they attacked the gathering places of Sufis, Mr. Karroubi was the only one who protested and said that such acts was far from the teachings of Islam and illegal according to the laws of the country and he invited others to speak up as well. So when everyone else was silent, he was the only one who defended the rights of the Sufis and according to the teachings of Islam, “You must return a good deed, with good deed” Thus, Sufis gave their votes to him. According to our statistics we have more than 4 million Gonabadi Sufis who all voted for Mr. Karroubi and this further reveals that the recent election was really a fraud, because the officials announcement of Mr. Karroubis votes was 350 thousand which was obviously a lie because just the Sufis alone gave him more that 4 million votes.

You mention 4 million Sufis voting for Mr. Karroubi. When the gathering place of Gonabadi Sufis was destroyed in Isfahan in the year 2009, according to media statistics 60 thousands Sufis gathered in front of the city hall in Tehran, where 800 of them were arrested. Do you have any media organization and how could such a population come to Tehran only a few days after the destruction? Tell us about the ways Sufis inform each other.

Unfortunately, we have been boycotted, my personal site has been hacked and even right now my email is disabled and other websites or blogs that belong to Sufis have been hacked or filtered. Even in the free international space we are having difficulties getting out the news of what is happening.

However, Sufis have a special form of connection that is different from the technological devices for connection. It is not an institutional or organizational system that can be influenced or disrupted. It is an emotional connection of the heart. This is basically the difference between the political organizations and the world of Sufis, which has no structural form to be penetrated. When the pressure was high on Sufis and a mass protest was needed, it was felt by the Sufis. We observed that, despite the fact that we are not able to release any information, that a gathering took place at the same time by Sufis coming from all over the country. In the same manner, when the time came to vote for Mr. Karroubi, more than 300 centers were established campaigning for Mr. Karroubi. I call this “a collective consciousness of Sufis” this is a different form of connection. This is also a fundamental problem for the intelligence service agents who have been trying to penetrate this form of communication of the Sufis without any success.

Let us return to the topic of the arrested Sufis. They were arrested for an illegal gathering in a cemetery in the city of Gonabad in Beidokht. This is a cemetery where many Sufis bury their dead relatives. Such gathering is like the gathering of Turks in Tabriz or the gathering of Jews in a Synagogue. They were charged with “disturbing the public”, what is your opinion as a person who has studied law?

Beidokht is a village close to the city of Gonabad. Gonabad is connected to a bigger city and the population of it is a little more than a village. There is a very large tomb in Beidokht where several masters of the Gonabadi Sufi order are buried. And there is a cemetery attached to this tomb. This tomb is called “Mazare Soltani” and is often visited by Sufis who come from various places for pilgrimage, and so the cemetery next to Mazare Soltani is not an ordinary one. It is like the tomb of Shah Nematollah Valy in the city of Kerman or other tombs of Sufi masters, like the tomb of Rumi in Konya which is considered an important historical place and a huge mosque and a shrine is build on top of the tomb. But unfortunately the Cultural Revolutionary Council decided to eliminate the name of Gonabad from the geography maps in school books, they are not only trying to eliminate Sufism and Sufis, but they also make efforts to eliminate any trace of its past. We also protested when this was done.

Last year, it was suddenly announced that the cemetery connected to the Mazare Soltani is closed and the burial of the dead in the cemetery is illegal. A Sufi who was taking care of the cemetery was summoned to the office of the intelligence service in Beidokht where he was notified that according to this decision it is considered a crime to bury anyone in this cemetery and if it is done, there will be consequences. This decision was not taken by the Parliament but was decided according to the directives of the intelligence service and suddenly it was a crime to bury anyone in this cemetery.

The law that I studied and learned was a specific kind of law, but what they called law in Iran is the word of an agent of the intelligence service in each city or village and this person is considered as the law. The definition of law in Iran is now outside of framework of justice as we know it and it is different to the classical definition of law and order, but it is used according to the will of a few people who are mostly mentally disturbed.

Thank you!